January 22nd, 2009
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Ignore books or shows which demonstrate a person “taking charge” of a dog by grabbing a handful of skin at the back of the neck. This is a sure way to get bitten or at least foster ill feelings with the dog. |
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Isnt that how a mother dog carries her young?
So as long as the dog is small and not heavy why would it be a problem.
I agree with Marlene…..it doesn’t hurt them, and you can’t get bit holding the dog by the BACK of the neck….I wouldn’t try to pick up a LAB of course…..*duh*, but a smaller dog ..yess
The mother uses her mouth to move tiny puppies around, especially before their eyes are open. As they get larger you will see this diminishing – there are other ways with voice and body language that a mother controls her litter as they get older.Neck grabbing is a hostile, aggressive act to a grown dog. You will see dogs grabbing each other by the scruff only in times of aggression and it can trigger dog fights. The mother is not reprimanding her pups in this way, she is simply transporting them when they are very little. Grabbing or lifting a dog by the scruff of the neck has no place in OUR interaction with them, especially because we would be doing it for correction or punishment, and that is NOT how the mother uses it. Also, it is not good for the neck and spine of a larger dog to be lifted in this way – the rest of the body needs to be supported when lifting a dog.
I just saw this technique on the Dog Whisperer. It worked for Cesar and he has his own nationally televised tv show.
Unfortunately, this is an example of techniques used by Cesar which perhaps work for him, but are often based on outdated ideas of training, discipline and how dogs learn. The controversy in the dog training field about Millan’s methods comes from techniques like this – which can push a dog past his limits and cause biting or increase aggression. It is because some of Cesar’s methods are based on dominance and control theories (that many current trainers and university professors are moving away from) that in the wrong hands with the wrong timing can get someone seriously hurt.Watch a bunch of dogs in a dog park and you will not see a well-socialized dog playing or getting a point across by putting his mouth on another dog’s neck or going over the top of her neck and grabbing. That is a sure recipe for a fight in most cases.
I am sorry, but who are any of you to be giving advise in the first place? the original author is a radio talk show host!? and the rest as far as I can tell are nobodies. This is the problem with the internet, anyone without any training can blab about there opinion as if it is fact.
Scruffing is a advanced technique used on very young puppy’s to quickly associate correction to words like NO, used with the right tone, so that they can learn quicker and will be winged off scruffing in less then a month. By gently scruffing the dog by rocking very easily back and forth your are communicating with dog language that the current emotion or behavior of the animal is unacceptable And this DOES NOT hurt the puppy physically or emotionally if done right. this is not “Taking Charge” as this radio talk show nobody puts it. that is false and made up, unless you are using this technique aggressively, which should never be done. In this case ( like dogs biting the back of each others neck when fighting) this is dominant and aggressive and should not be done unless you know what your are doing, and without years of training…. you DONT! Nor should you advice against it unless you have years of training with dogs, you talk show nobody. Of any dog I have trained I have yet to have any with temperament disorders. I absolutely hate people like this radio host who state there opinions online. There not a professional and don’t lesion to them. Keep your own damn opinions off the internet unless you actually know what your are talking about you hack. Go through vet school, to give vet advice.
Go talk to several respected PROFESSIONALS, and not a RADIO talk show host, and find out what I have said is right. and next time some one sees an author with the credentials of a “talk show host” post information a vet should give you, please take the liberty to tell them where to stick it! People like this make the internet a horribly place to go for information.
Everybody is entitled to their own opinions and the internet is a great place for putting out your opinions. Anytime you seek any information on the internet you should look in more than one place. Also keep in mind that unless you consult a professional any credibly you give the internet based on how you train your dog for instance, could very well be incorrect. I am looking this up because I’m pretty sure it does hurt my small 4lb dog. I’m sure mentally it hurts and it would seem physically too because even a small pinch during petting and she yelps. I have yet to read more on this subject but reading one of the comments on here just annoyed me. So people, please take the LIBERTY to continue posting your opinions on the internet. Whilst keeping in mind that anyone who runs their life by doing what the internet says must be a complete retard. Also, don’t forget how many hypochondriacs have been made out of sites like “Web MD”. People like “internet is a bad place to get FACTS” need to lighten up.
internet is a bad place to get FACTS, you are an idiot. I hate to burst your bubble but vets are not trained in animal behavior, and on that note most “professionals” lack a basic understanding of simple animal nature. Book learning is not the same as having a natural ability to understand. Understand? Some people know dogs, other people don’t. Just because a person does not have a degree in a particular subject does not mean they are uneducated.
That is dumb…I scruff my yorkie all the time and it is never to punish or correct her; it is simply an easy way to transport her short distances (like picking her up to put her on the bed or moving her off my lap and onto the floor before getting up). It doesn’t hurt her, in fact she actually scratches at the side of my bed and whines until I help her up. Of course you can’t scruff a lab or a husky…come on Tracie…get a life.
the scruff of the neck is where you grab dogs, grab them anywhere else and they won’t respect you… this was brought to you by sand, it’s everywhere, get used to it
The scruff of the neck is EXACTLY where you should grab a dog if you want to curtail bad behavior.
This talk show host has no credentials and is a complete f*cking idiot.
Thanks alot, internet.
Instead of lifting them up by the scruff to enforce dominance i prefer to take the dog and lift it, i then rotate it until its head is towards the ground and its feet are toward the ceiling, i hold it there until it begins to squirm and then i act like i am going to drop it, i dont of course, that would be cruel. i then gently place it back on the ground and watch it crawl under the table.
Outrageous. You are slandering cesar millan and his world renowned dog training techniques. And yes vets do cover animal behaviour dimwits, I would like to add that they handle animals of all shapes and temperaments very day and so have a very good idea of what is a good technique in handling. What are the downfalls of scruffing? Obviously don’t go picking up a saint Bernard by the scruff but otherwise I don’t see anything wrong with it. Mother dogs do not just use it for transport they will often tell. Heir pup off by a gentle shake to the scruff.
As for the “outdated” technique, yes it is a sign of dominance, and as cesar millan and half the world believe, being the pack leader is important, will make your dog feel happier and more comfortable in itself, is used in a natural dog pack by the pack leader, and a pretty humane way of not only telling a dog off, but controlling It in a calm and effective manner, reducing the risk of being bitten. I think you’ll find in dog fights with severe aggression they do not grab the scruff, they go for each others jugula if they mean business. The only times they would naturally use scruffing is in an established pack to instate dominance, and when breeding and as a do owner u should know u dog was conceived in the act of scruffing, I’m sure the mother got over of and I’m sure your dog will too. People nowadays are so bizarre, it’s such a nice way of telling your dog off, there are dogs all over the world being beaten on a regular basis and your worrying about grabbing a dog by the scruff, if more people were the packleader the world would be a better place.
Six years ago, I adopted an untrained one year old with a pretty serious problem with dominance aggression. I have found that scruffing is the only way I can correct aggressive behavior in him (currently only happens a few times a year, down from several times a day) without injuring him or getting bitten myself. He does hate it, but that is the point of any effective correction…if the dog likes it, it doesn’t work. That said, I wouldn’t recommend scruffing a submissive dog, as it is probably too harsh for their temperament and could do permanent damage to your relationship. I also wouldn’t recommend it for an aggressive dog that is bigger or stronger than what you can hang on to. Once you have them by the neck (at least until they have learned that this move means game over for them), they will struggle and will probably bite if they break free before they have had time to calm down and submit, so only try it if you are ready to hang on for dear life and know you can physically control them (my dog is 10lbs, so he can’t get loose). I also don’t pick my dog up this way, as I am afraid it would hurt him, but just grab him if he snaps or snarls and pin him down until he relaxes. This shouldn’t be something you do with your average dog, but for a dangerously dominant one, I have seen it work wonders.
I think it really comes down to personal preference. I don’t think any full grown dog no matter how big should be picked up by the neck. However with that said by the time the dog is older the owner should be able to gage what is a can do or no can. I have a 95lb German Shepherd and I scruff him to the ground sometimes at the dog park to calm him down if he gets a bit too rowdy with other dogs. He was a few months old when I got him and didn’t like it Initally but eventually it became a useful physical signal to him that he needed to calm down. I now can just lightly grab the nap of his neck and he naturally submits. Which is a lot better than some other dogs I see that the owners have no control over their dogs. Having him in control one time actually allowed me to focus on a Jack Russell that had it in for my Shepherd and I was able to grab the JRs collar before it got out of hand. But grabbing the scruff should only be done in dogs that may have the tendency to be in a situation that may need it. Sorry but I’m not loosing my beautiful German Shepherd because some other owner didn’t have their stuff in check. My Shepherd knows that if he doesnt want to play with another dog that may not have the best manners he will usually submit to my side.
This is the problem w/the world today. No pledge of allegiance in schools, parents are condemned for smacking their kids on the butt and now dog owners are deemed inhumane for grabbing a dog by the scruff of his neck when he does something he is not supposed too. I am old school. If you dog is doing something HE/SHE KNOWS NOT TO BE DOING then yes, grab that scruff and let them know it is not acceptable. I bet they will think twice before doing it again. I do this when I catch them IN THE ACT of soiling in the house.
stop with this “he said she said” stuff, if your dog is light AND he likes it than it is OKAY!!! My miniature male yorkie LOVES being held like that and people (vegan, liberals, feminists, etc) always have something to say as if they know the situation. the dog is clearly not crying and not resisting. mind your own business people.
I think grabbing a dog by the scruff of the neck is not inhumain, in some cases so dog trainers use it. I think it is exceptable on small dogs, and working dogs – they love there work yes but they need dominance and some people find by grabbing them by the neck shows it. of course i dont approve of that. but i do approve of it happening to small dogs like terriers. I am a qualified dog trainer and i say to my client’s if they want to pick up there small dogs up like that fine. yes there is a risk of you getting biten but it not likely. so stop arguing over this. People do what they want with there pets and only want advise not some on a website literally telling them what to do. so here’s my advice people. take it or leave it, i dont mind. Tracy you need to calm down and just let people read the comments and take it in if they want. if they get it wrong it’s their fault, if they get it right no more dog problems and someone complaining about a tiny little thing
This is ridiculous. Im sick of hearing that dogs should be trained with no negative reinforcement at all. It is not an “old school” technique. Dogs have not changed, we have. Grabbing a dog by the scruff when it is doing something wrong or dangerous is a good way to reinforce that you are dominant or the “pack leader”. This is how dogs learn. I have been Jack russell breeder for many many years and have owned a few pits, a great dane and a shepherd mix over the years. Watching how the mother dog interacts with her puppies is a good way to learn how we should act with our family pets. When they annoy or hurt her she growls (firmly saying “NO”) or bites (‘swatting them on the nose or behind) or grabs them by the scruff to show them what is right and wrong. Dogs turn out to be incredibly anxious and unhappy if they are not trained properly, I have seen this from a few customers over the years. Obviously different breeds have different contraints when it comes to scruffing. I would never try to transport a dachshund or a large dog by its scruff fot instance, in fact i wouldn’t recommend grabbing the scruff unless reprimanding. Short distances such as lifting into bed depending on the dog are not a bad thing. We should all stop worrying about whether or not a dog likes being scruffed or is made uncomfortable by scruffing; the point of this is to assert your dominance. Obviously we dont want to cause real pain or damage to our loved pets so if scruffing doesn’t work for your dog try rolling the dog onto their back on the floor. This also asserts dominance. It the dog struggles to be free or roll over hold them there until they stop despite their protests. Negative reinforcement when used correctly does not cause emotional damage to your dog; not training it correctly causes emotional instability, anxiety and agression.
Apparently not all dogs are the same. My husband and I have a one year old chihuahua/bichon mix who weighs about 8 lbs. When it was about 6 lbs at 6 mos. old, my husband picked him up by his scruff twice when it was misbehaving. Both times, the dog yelped out very loud like it was being injured. It took our dog a week to allow my husband to get near him after that. I was so upset, I forbade my husband from ever doing it again. There will always be pro and cons for everything. Perhaps some breeds hate it and some breeds like it. I just know I’ve never done it myself. It’s as I say in regards to ANY field of expertise, there are hundreds of experts, and they ALL disagree! NO MATTER WHAT!!!
@Jenn, A dog especially a puppy will yelp. It doesn’t mean they’re in pain. Dogs yelp when something is unfamiliar (sensation) and being that it went 1 year without scruffing and experienced it, she yelped. It’s natural. My dog injured her left front paw a while ago like 2 years ago. Every time I touched her there, she would pull back and yelp real loud. It frightened me at first cause I thought the wound was opening up or something else but after further inspection, she just associated that reason with pain. The way to address is is not to baby or coddle them. That just rewards that state of mind. I’m of the strong leadership (calm, firm, loving) philosophy and I gently grabbed her paw and when she yelped, i just held it there. She didn’t fight or squirm but she was very uneasy mentally. After a few seconds, I praised her big time and she also realized nothing bad happened, no pain. The key is to have the dog learn on its own and to overcome irrational fears on its own. Now, I regularly grab her paws, ears, mouth, put my hands into her razor sharp mouth, tail, etc. and the trust is there that I am in completely control.
Back to scruffing, if you jump back and went “oh poor baby!!” and coddled it, it would’ve made the situation worse. My puppy yelps and screams when I scruff sometimes but I know it doesn’t hurt her. The scruff is used by the mother to not only carry the puppy but YES, contrary to the stupid article above, the mother does discipline by biting on the scruff. And yes, adult dogs do play by “attacking” and grabbing at the scruff as it is a dominant behavior. It is playful and an internet search will show you that dogs do this playfully, not aggresively to start fights like the article states.
The article like many of the commentors stated, is what’s wrong with the dog training world today. There is an overcompensation and ridiculous nonsense about what’s “cruel” and inhumane without the right facts. Have lots of praise, lots of love, are calm and centered, and develop a trusting bond with your dogs.. and that includes discipline. Unlike people who live in sugar coated worlds that believe you can discipline a child for throwing paint on the walls or throwing a temper tantrum but when it comes to disciplining dogs,, any form of discipline or correction is met with “OMG you’re so cruel. it’s so inhumane”. Seriously, get some perspective on life people.
This argument seems silly…it depends on the trainer it depends on the trainee.. my first apbt go ahead and scruff him, I bet you get bit..but I also wasnt experienced. I later found this dog sadly was a product of poor breeding, but a lot of the things he did where a direct cause and affect from my lack of know how. How to deal with a dominate intact male. I eventually got it..Luckily without harm to myself or the dog, and I learned my dog..I knew what he was about to do shortly after he did. I knew
His triggers. My apbt ” Boss” lived up to his name and tested his rank often..It became normal, I knew what I needed to do to get my point across without any one of us getting harmed. Now I know from day one things I wont allow, SUCH AS backing up and sitting on my feet, begging. I learned the importance of training.. knowing your animal will obey your verbal commands.
Biggest piece of advise I can give. Know the breed. Know your dogs temperment. Never try anything you arent willing to get bit
For. Everything that works for me wont work for you. After all we are different..
Over confidence is a great way to get bit.
If you dont know seek help from a trainer, trainers study behavior, vets not as much. Deal with a trainer with methods YOU believe fit you best.