Birdy: “Also, there seems to be a lot more cases of dogs getting pancreatitis and obesity and other issues. Not sure any studies have been done that I can find but I wonder if RAW and no grain high protein diets have anything to do with this.”

Obesity (especially) and pancreatitis, if anything, would be more related to dry, processed, high carbohydrate diets, especially with cats. Cats as true carnivores (dogs are similar but can handle more carbs) need little if any carbohydrate, and all the excess processed carbohydrate is converted as stored as fat. This can also happen with humans, so it makes sense with our carnivorous animals. Diet is not the only factor in obesity (but a big one) – exercise and amount of food are also important. And pancreatitis in cats would seem to have a link to high carb food, since the pancreas can get all out of whack with a high carb dry diet which can lead to/influence diabetes (another disfunction of the pancreas). Too much fat can be problematic for dogs and humans with pancreatitis, this is not as clear with cats, though. But, all the high carb processed kibble cannot be helping their overall health.

I agree with Dr. Barchas, dogs are not wolves, they are scavengers and as such eat what humans do and in general we don’t eat raw meat.

Also, there seems to be a lot more cases of dogs getting pancreatitis and obesity and other issues. Not sure any studies have been done that I can find but I wonder if RAW and no grain high protein diets have anything to do with this.

I don’t know if you’ll read this, but I will reply anyway.
Humans are considered to be omnivores, not necessarily exclusive herbivores or “vegetarians”. Though it can be debated, there is enough science to indicate humans are omnivores. People should also eat as healthy as they can :)

quote: “Those cats would be in a completely different habitat then they were at a nicely protected “human home”. Wild cats cannot be compared to domestic cats.”

Why can’t wild cats be compared to domestic cats? Cats have only lived with (inside) humans as pets for the last 50 – maybe 100 years. They have become the favorite, most popular pet really in the last 20-30 years. Dry commercial pet foods have only been around the last 50 years or so…Prior to that cats may have gotten meat scraps (probably a lot of raw and organ rich meat) and hunted for rodents, birds etc. Their biology, physiolgy => digestive tract doesn’t change when they become tame house kitties. It won’t change as they continue to live with us over the years. They still have the same nutritional requirements. Their digestive tracts don’t all of a sudden turn into “house cat digestive tracts!”

For me and my cats, it’s about feeding a more healthy, quality, species appropriate diet; that can be raw (done right), but it doesn’t mean only raw. It can also be quality canned. It’s about approximating what a cat would eat naturally based on the protein, fat, carbohydrate and moisture content of the food. Mouse in a can so to speak! Raw done right can be a great diet, but I don’t think it’s essential. I think it is a good choice, but may not be for everyone.

I just want us to get away from feeding all the highly processed grains, flours, glutens, cellulose, etc. found in dry cat food. It is quite awful. And the “vet recommended” ones are often some of the worst foods. Sorry Dr. Barchas, but it’s true, and I hope your industry will one day look what they are “recommending”. It’s a distasteful situation, to put it respectfully.

Raw is great, but so is quality canned (preferably grain-free); both are more species appropriate. We need to be feeding a higher quality, more biologically correct diet and get away from the all the dry processed convenient junk.

I have a question about people you meet who suggest/promote raw diet. I have read several views about why they promote it, about the genetic makeup of cats, their stomach’s capacity and capability to digest raw, how they would live in the wild etc etc. Have you ever asked those people in return (or has there ever been a survey about their opinions) if they are vegetarians ? Wasn’t that how nature created human beings ? We were supposed to be veggies by nature and perhaps it could not be even wrong to think of ourselves feeding on stuff that need not be cooked but actually eaten raw eg:- vegetables mostly not even grains. But we evolved. We learnt how to use fire, how to cook food to suit our palates, to cook meat to be able to digest it. So, why do people expect domestic cats to live like they would in the wilds ? Those cats would be in a completely different habitat then they were at a nicely protected “human home”. Wild cats cannot be compared to domestic cats. Can we be compared to people living in some far-off jungle ?

I don’t have anything against feeding raw and I don’t even want to tell what I feed my cats. People can judge that I feed some commercial food but it doesn’t matter.If I preach raw diet for cats I should be EXTREMELY careful about my and my human family’s health. Am I ? If not, then I have no right to say that my non-human family has to be 100% healthy. My lifestyle has some -ve effects on my health so also there will be some on my cat’s health. I am not saying we eat crap because of that but just that I guess every cat/dog-owner tries to do the best he/she can. There are several limitations to what they can do but I cannot judge them based on whether they feed raw or not as long as they “try” to do the right thing. I volunteer for a rescue and I have seen different people do different things and a lot of previous (now dead) cats have lived upto 19-20 which is not bad. Cats may be able to live upto 30 but is it all that necessary ? Should I necessarily live upto 150 ? As long as I have lived a happy and cared-for life reaching my 80-90s (or even 70s for that matter) is not all that bad and I have seen people tell stories about their pets which showed the love and care they may have provided. I am happy with that. If they loved a pet that much I am sure the pet must have been given the best food/treatment they could have given, raw or no-raw.

Dr. Barchas why do Vets often recommend Science Diet (dry) to feline patients? Are the ingredients quality and heathy for a carnivore? Where are the studies to back this up? Isn’t there a rather large conflict of interest when vets are selling a food and making money on food and the food has not been studied and backed up scientifically as the most beneficial for cats (in my case). Why are these diets called “prescription” I find there is a major issue in your industry about these foods you sell and promote. Please address this, it bothers me very much.

Studies or not, it just makes sense to feed a cat a quality diet fit for a carnivore – that means quality canned or properly prepared raw. Feeding any living being completely processed pieces of dry compressed kibble out of a bag just intuitively makes no sense. Sure they will love for a while on it, but look at the increase in health issues in cats.
My evidence, the day I my cat was diagnosed with diabetes I researched and then threw out the dry food and started on canned food, and that day he stopped the excessive water drinking and his urine output decreased substantially.

Why do some vets now recommend a low carb (canned) diet to diabetic cats at diagnosis, yet don’t recommend a species appropriate diet all along for health-promotion?

As far as Raw vs. commeicial, for me as a cat owner it’s about a diet appropriate foe a carnivore : a protein-based , low carb quality diet – canned or properly prepared raw. There can be problems when people don’t supplement and prepare raw food properly. But raw can be a beneficial way to go. I personally feed a combo or quality canned and commercial raw. My boy is doing great!

Best wishes and headbutts to all!

Lexispup, I’m not aware of any of these super-duper studies on commercial food either.

Never forget that _every_ large-scale study on commercial food is paid for by the commercial food manufacturers, either directly or through university grant. “Studies” by commercial entities have a funny way of proving whatever point the commercial entity is trying to promote. That’s basic common sense.

What we _do_ know is that the wild canids are eating diets very similar to what rawbies feed their dogs. One can say with certainty those wild canids are evolved to match that diet, and domestic dogs are really not that far removed from their wild relatives.

For a correllary example, we as humans would be healthier if we followed a primate-like diet plan of fruits, grains, ruffage, and lesser quantities of meat (many primates, including our closest relatives, chimpanzees, do eat meat). Less processed food would be better for all of us, humans and dogs.

So if processed food is “just as good” as natural food, raise your hand if you crack open a can of Alpo for your kids on meatloaf night.