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	<title>Comments on: Teen With Gumption Plans to Drive the Final Nail Into Debarking&#8217;s Coffin</title>
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		<title>By: Marky</title>
		<link>http://blogs.dogster.com/vet_blog_information_advice/teen-with-gumption-plans-to-drive-the-final-nail-into-debarkings-coffin/comment-page-1/#comment-5622</link>
		<dc:creator>Marky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 19:51:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.dogster.com/vet_blog_information_advice/teen-with-gumption-plans-to-drive-the-final-nail-into-debarkings-coffin/#comment-5622</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve read all these  comments--well intentioned, I&#039;m sure-but here I sit, with my RESCUE sheltie, whose histoy no  one knows since he was found by the side of the road and taken to a rescue group.  He barks incessantly and very loudly, believing with all his little heart that he is protecting this nice lady who teats him like a prince, plays with him all the time and cuddles with him any time he likes.  It is a Sheltie&#039;s nature to chase away birds, planes, squirrels, the neighbor&#039;s lawnmower, all the while barking at the top of his lungs.  Should they all be killed?  The dog was already alive, people; I did not breed it or buy it from a breeder.  I got it from a rescue group, which I&#039;m sure you would all recommend.  I live in a residential neighborhood in another state, and this incessant barking, in spite of all the training and love I am putting into this dog, cannot go on.  I&#039;ve had Shelties who barked very little, but this one is a barking champ and I didn&#039;t have the chance to raise him from babyhood (and even that might not have changed his behavior).  Debarking may be his only chance to stay with us; we can&#039;t buy a farm, and there aren&#039;t enough homes to go around.  Are you ready to adopt him?  Like Jamie and Dawn said basically, there are 2 sides.......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve read all these  comments&#8211;well intentioned, I&#8217;m sure-but here I sit, with my RESCUE sheltie, whose histoy no  one knows since he was found by the side of the road and taken to a rescue group.  He barks incessantly and very loudly, believing with all his little heart that he is protecting this nice lady who teats him like a prince, plays with him all the time and cuddles with him any time he likes.  It is a Sheltie&#8217;s nature to chase away birds, planes, squirrels, the neighbor&#8217;s lawnmower, all the while barking at the top of his lungs.  Should they all be killed?  The dog was already alive, people; I did not breed it or buy it from a breeder.  I got it from a rescue group, which I&#8217;m sure you would all recommend.  I live in a residential neighborhood in another state, and this incessant barking, in spite of all the training and love I am putting into this dog, cannot go on.  I&#8217;ve had Shelties who barked very little, but this one is a barking champ and I didn&#8217;t have the chance to raise him from babyhood (and even that might not have changed his behavior).  Debarking may be his only chance to stay with us; we can&#8217;t buy a farm, and there aren&#8217;t enough homes to go around.  Are you ready to adopt him?  Like Jamie and Dawn said basically, there are 2 sides&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Anon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.dogster.com/vet_blog_information_advice/teen-with-gumption-plans-to-drive-the-final-nail-into-debarkings-coffin/comment-page-1/#comment-5280</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 01:00:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.dogster.com/vet_blog_information_advice/teen-with-gumption-plans-to-drive-the-final-nail-into-debarkings-coffin/#comment-5280</guid>
		<description>Well said Jordan S!  What on earth would convince someone that pet ownership period is under threat.  With the media blitz surrounding the president acquiring his dog and the HUGE pet industry and it&#039;s lobby.  Sure PetSmart, Purina, PetCo, and the thousands of local pet product stores are all just going to roll over and say &quot;Yeah, that pet illegalization just happened while we looked the other way&quot;.  Please, get over that snow job of a far flung prediction planted by those who want to continue pet abuse!  I&#039;m not sure what zealots first cried the sky was falling and pets ownership would be criminalized (by a mostly pet owning government to boot) but they are doing a good job of conning good animal loving people into becoming their mouthpieces.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said Jordan S!  What on earth would convince someone that pet ownership period is under threat.  With the media blitz surrounding the president acquiring his dog and the HUGE pet industry and it&#8217;s lobby.  Sure PetSmart, Purina, PetCo, and the thousands of local pet product stores are all just going to roll over and say &#8220;Yeah, that pet illegalization just happened while we looked the other way&#8221;.  Please, get over that snow job of a far flung prediction planted by those who want to continue pet abuse!  I&#8217;m not sure what zealots first cried the sky was falling and pets ownership would be criminalized (by a mostly pet owning government to boot) but they are doing a good job of conning good animal loving people into becoming their mouthpieces.</p>
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		<title>By: Jordan S</title>
		<link>http://blogs.dogster.com/vet_blog_information_advice/teen-with-gumption-plans-to-drive-the-final-nail-into-debarkings-coffin/comment-page-1/#comment-5270</link>
		<dc:creator>Jordan S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 16:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.dogster.com/vet_blog_information_advice/teen-with-gumption-plans-to-drive-the-final-nail-into-debarkings-coffin/#comment-5270</guid>
		<description>Devocalizaion is absolutely horrible! Dogs bark, and they should NEVER be surgically altered for that! You’d want your dog to be able to bark if someone was robbing your house or your house was on fire. To put a dog or cat through this procedure is horrible, the risks are numerous, ranging from infection to airway obstruction. People who devocalize say this is a simple procedure, tell that to the Pomeranian who choked to death after being devocalized and the dog who bled through his nose, ears, and mouth and choked on his own blood during and after a devocalization surgery. And for what, nothing, not even the guarantee of a secure home. Devocalized dogs are given up just like any other, some to shelters supporting this bill. The inspiration for this bill came from a devocalized dog in a shelter, contrary to what people opposing the bill have said, like this is part of a nationally organized campaign to stop people from having pets (even though I have a dog?). I have read so many times, devocalization is the only way I can breed shelties, and things like that, my question is then, why have shelties if they’re naturally noisy? Is that responsible, to have a breed predisposed to bark a lot , and then cut his vocal cords? ABSOLUTELY NOT, that is not responsible at all. This bill will promote responsible pet ownership by eliminating this horrible procedure only for human convenience and profit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Devocalizaion is absolutely horrible! Dogs bark, and they should NEVER be surgically altered for that! You’d want your dog to be able to bark if someone was robbing your house or your house was on fire. To put a dog or cat through this procedure is horrible, the risks are numerous, ranging from infection to airway obstruction. People who devocalize say this is a simple procedure, tell that to the Pomeranian who choked to death after being devocalized and the dog who bled through his nose, ears, and mouth and choked on his own blood during and after a devocalization surgery. And for what, nothing, not even the guarantee of a secure home. Devocalized dogs are given up just like any other, some to shelters supporting this bill. The inspiration for this bill came from a devocalized dog in a shelter, contrary to what people opposing the bill have said, like this is part of a nationally organized campaign to stop people from having pets (even though I have a dog?). I have read so many times, devocalization is the only way I can breed shelties, and things like that, my question is then, why have shelties if they’re naturally noisy? Is that responsible, to have a breed predisposed to bark a lot , and then cut his vocal cords? ABSOLUTELY NOT, that is not responsible at all. This bill will promote responsible pet ownership by eliminating this horrible procedure only for human convenience and profit.</p>
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		<title>By: Allie</title>
		<link>http://blogs.dogster.com/vet_blog_information_advice/teen-with-gumption-plans-to-drive-the-final-nail-into-debarkings-coffin/comment-page-1/#comment-4851</link>
		<dc:creator>Allie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 22:36:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.dogster.com/vet_blog_information_advice/teen-with-gumption-plans-to-drive-the-final-nail-into-debarkings-coffin/#comment-4851</guid>
		<description>Ideally, no, no dog should be de-barked,  but as a dog owner who has considered this as an option i must say i don&#039;t think flat out banning the procedure is going to solve any problems. before you all jump down my throat let me give you some back story. i have an (almost) 11yr old mutt that i have had since she was 8 weeks old. she was well socialized, we spent a lot of time in training classes, agility classes, we still go to the park regularly and play frisbee. she goes out every day with a doggie play group while i am at work. as she has aged she has developed separation anxiety, we have worked with behaviorists and my veterinarian to do behavior modification and she is on an anxiety med. she gets frozen stuffed kongs bully stix and many many things to keep her busy for the time she is home alone....and still her vocalization is a nusance to my neighbors who thankfully have been more than understanding, but even the most patient person has their breaking point. bring in the consideration of de-barking...do i WANT to do this to my dog, certainly not. i have tried ( and continue to try) every option available-including the electronic and citronella collars-which have not stopped her barking, but instaed only seemed to increase her anxiety. so what am i to do? is it better to put my elderly dog who has known only one family, and doesn&#039;t let me leave a room with out being on my heels into a shelter or rescue in the hopes that she finds a good family to live out what may very well be the last few years of her life? and we all know an old dog with behavior issues in a shelter has only one way out.  so for people in my situation who are responsible pet owners that have tried every other option and  LOVE their dogs and have agonized and are heartbroken at having to have to choose between 2 terrible choices...what would you have us do?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ideally, no, no dog should be de-barked,  but as a dog owner who has considered this as an option i must say i don&#8217;t think flat out banning the procedure is going to solve any problems. before you all jump down my throat let me give you some back story. i have an (almost) 11yr old mutt that i have had since she was 8 weeks old. she was well socialized, we spent a lot of time in training classes, agility classes, we still go to the park regularly and play frisbee. she goes out every day with a doggie play group while i am at work. as she has aged she has developed separation anxiety, we have worked with behaviorists and my veterinarian to do behavior modification and she is on an anxiety med. she gets frozen stuffed kongs bully stix and many many things to keep her busy for the time she is home alone&#8230;.and still her vocalization is a nusance to my neighbors who thankfully have been more than understanding, but even the most patient person has their breaking point. bring in the consideration of de-barking&#8230;do i WANT to do this to my dog, certainly not. i have tried ( and continue to try) every option available-including the electronic and citronella collars-which have not stopped her barking, but instaed only seemed to increase her anxiety. so what am i to do? is it better to put my elderly dog who has known only one family, and doesn&#8217;t let me leave a room with out being on my heels into a shelter or rescue in the hopes that she finds a good family to live out what may very well be the last few years of her life? and we all know an old dog with behavior issues in a shelter has only one way out.  so for people in my situation who are responsible pet owners that have tried every other option and  LOVE their dogs and have agonized and are heartbroken at having to have to choose between 2 terrible choices&#8230;what would you have us do?</p>
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		<title>By: candyce</title>
		<link>http://blogs.dogster.com/vet_blog_information_advice/teen-with-gumption-plans-to-drive-the-final-nail-into-debarkings-coffin/comment-page-1/#comment-4601</link>
		<dc:creator>candyce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 07:16:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.dogster.com/vet_blog_information_advice/teen-with-gumption-plans-to-drive-the-final-nail-into-debarkings-coffin/#comment-4601</guid>
		<description>How many people have actually listened to a &quot;Debarked&quot; dog vocalise?
We have heard many around the shows, and it brings tears to our eyes.
Surely an electronic collar that delivers a shock to the dog when it barks, thereby training it - if I bark too much it hurts, so I&#039;ll stop my unimportant boredom barking NOW - has to be a far, far more humane than debarking surgery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How many people have actually listened to a &#8220;Debarked&#8221; dog vocalise?<br />
We have heard many around the shows, and it brings tears to our eyes.<br />
Surely an electronic collar that delivers a shock to the dog when it barks, thereby training it &#8211; if I bark too much it hurts, so I&#8217;ll stop my unimportant boredom barking NOW &#8211; has to be a far, far more humane than debarking surgery.</p>
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		<title>By: Nancy Tobis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.dogster.com/vet_blog_information_advice/teen-with-gumption-plans-to-drive-the-final-nail-into-debarkings-coffin/comment-page-1/#comment-4457</link>
		<dc:creator>Nancy Tobis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 18:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.dogster.com/vet_blog_information_advice/teen-with-gumption-plans-to-drive-the-final-nail-into-debarkings-coffin/#comment-4457</guid>
		<description>Re  the  article  and    web  connection  about  pet food and  the comment  that  dogs and  cats  may  become ill  on  homemade diets.  I have  been home feeding my  dog  since  she  was   8wks  old. She is now  six  years old.  
I have done  ample  research  into  what  dogs  need.  I give  supplements  as well as  food.  She  gets  probiotics, omega 6, iodine,  and   calcuim supplements.  She is  a very healthy  dog.  
I do not  feed  commercial dog  food  as  the majority  of  dog  foods  contain meat or fish  bi products  and  filler  such  as   corn,  wheat  and  rice.  The  dog  does not need  these fillers.  For  a  carb my dog  gets sweet potato  which is  a more  complex  carb than wheat or  rice. 
Her  protein source  is   ground  turkey (white meat) and   salmon. She  occassionally  gets  beef. As well  as  the complex  carb and protein she  gets  asparagus  and  carrots  for  fiber  
Nancy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re  the  article  and    web  connection  about  pet food and  the comment  that  dogs and  cats  may  become ill  on  homemade diets.  I have  been home feeding my  dog  since  she  was   8wks  old. She is now  six  years old.<br />
I have done  ample  research  into  what  dogs  need.  I give  supplements  as well as  food.  She  gets  probiotics, omega 6, iodine,  and   calcuim supplements.  She is  a very healthy  dog.<br />
I do not  feed  commercial dog  food  as  the majority  of  dog  foods  contain meat or fish  bi products  and  filler  such  as   corn,  wheat  and  rice.  The  dog  does not need  these fillers.  For  a  carb my dog  gets sweet potato  which is  a more  complex  carb than wheat or  rice.<br />
Her  protein source  is   ground  turkey (white meat) and   salmon. She  occassionally  gets  beef. As well  as  the complex  carb and protein she  gets  asparagus  and  carrots  for  fiber<br />
Nancy</p>
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		<title>By: Dawn, Peanut's mom</title>
		<link>http://blogs.dogster.com/vet_blog_information_advice/teen-with-gumption-plans-to-drive-the-final-nail-into-debarkings-coffin/comment-page-1/#comment-4433</link>
		<dc:creator>Dawn, Peanut's mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 21:57:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.dogster.com/vet_blog_information_advice/teen-with-gumption-plans-to-drive-the-final-nail-into-debarkings-coffin/#comment-4433</guid>
		<description>We have adopted several adult shelties in the past and plan to adopt in the future.
So, 11 years ago I was contacted by someone who knew how much we love animals and told about a very sad situation. They knew a middle age couple that had a sheltie and they were going to put it to sleep.  They knew nothing about shelties before picking one out from a breeder who specialized in working herding shelties &amp; border collies so they bred for the herding drive.  They got a sheltie puppy because they liked the look. This was their first mistake.
They spent no time training this dog beyond house breaking it.
They had built a new house and said the dog was having accidents so the husband would beat it.  The wife was afraid he would kill the dog so they had their adult daughter take it to her home, where she ran a daycare.  When the dog started herding the toddlers, they shuffled the dog to another adult sibling’s house.  For some other reason that didn’t work out either so the dog went back to the daycare house but was put in a kennel in the back yard and kept out there with very little attention. The daughter’s neighbors were complaining about the barking so this is why they were going to put it to sleep. “She was naughty!” is what they said.
At the time, my husband and I lived in the country in a house we had just built with our 12-year-old male sheltie. I could not bear to have this poor dog put down so we took her home.
Poor Peanut was just two years old and scared to death.  She’d had no socializing at all but quickly became part of our family.  She is so very smart and learned all the basics very quickly!  We also discovered the mistakes she’d had at her previous home that she was being beaten for was actually stomach bile.  The food they had been feeding her was too rich and she’d throw up. They’d see a yellow puddle (bile) and take a belt to her for it.  To this day she has never ever had an accident with us but she trembles at the sight of belts!  So have no belts in our house; my hubby even wears suspenders now!
She was so eager to please and very quick to learn. She really perked up our old male sheltie!  She was good for us and we were good for her.  The only thing was, she was a chronic barker.  Knowing shelties as we do we know they are a vocal and active breed.  Peanut was even more so because of the separation anxiety of being left alone in a pen in the yard with no attention during those first formative years. 
Living in the county, it wasn’t a problem for us. She had lots of quirks, the second you’d walk outside the door she’d start barking uncontrollably and spin in circles and so on.
We tried lots of things like training her to bark so we could train her not to and other methods but were not able to change this so we loved her anyway.

Then came the day my husband was diagnosed with cancer.  I wont go into the roller coaster ride we were thrust on but we had to sell our home and buy a condo because he was too sick to care for it &amp; the yard and I had to continue to work to support us.
We found a condo that allowed pets so it all worked out wonderfully.
Except for the barking issue.  When we were home, no problem.  But there were doctor appointments, radiation treatments, and we couldn’t be home 24 hours a day.
We rented just about every training video &amp; training book we could get from the library, talked to our vet, talked to trainers, even had her stay with a trainer so she could get professional one-on-one training. That didn’t work either. She still barked the second we were out of the room. We then tried a citronella spray collar and miss smarty-pants outwitted it.  She learned to bark once and wait for the collar to reset then bark once again…We used activity balls, turned the radio to talk radio so she would hear voices, took her for long walks to tire her out prior to our leaving…..  Nothing worked.
  
We received notice from the condo association telling us we would have to sell and move or get rid of the dog if her barking continued.
We talked to our vet again and she suggested that since we were having Peanut&#039;s teeth cleaned the next week, she could debark her at the same time.  I was immediately horrified!  I couldn’t! No way!  I also couldn’t bear to get rid of her.  
Here we are fighting this horrible cancer, and our then 14-year-old sheltie’s health was starting to fail and now this!
My vet explained to us that it was a very simple surgery.  While she was already out for the dental cleaning, they would go in and trim the vocal fold tissue. They DON’T cut vocal cords. It’s not even as bad as having tonsils out.  She explained there were some risks and she could get scar tissue and need more surgery, she would still be able to make some noise, the amount was up to her will power.  There would be less tissue for the moving air to vibrate against which is how they make their barking sound.  She doesn’t offer this as a solution to just any dog owner.  But she knew all we the work and different training methods we’d tried.  
So Peanut had her teeth cleaned and was also debarked. 
She had no complications, no scar tissue, she didn’t even seem bothered by it.
A year later we had to help our other senior sheltie to the rainbow bridge and it hurt so bad but we were glad we still had our Peanut.  Two years after that we got an all clear from the cancer doctor and moved into a house on a small lake.
Peanut will be 13 this April.  She is still healthy, still spins in circles when we step outside even though she can see us standing there, and she is still a compulsive barker. She has the job of herding the wild geese off our lawn and is very good at it. We’ve also done some agility training with her and what an incredible dog she is!  She makes a breathy barking sound and we can hear it but it doesn’t bother our neighbors and Peanut doesn’t care.  The other two dogs we have don’t care that Peanut makes an odd noise. And by the way, we have never debarked any other dogs and don’t plan to. 
A year after moving to this house on the lake we decided we were ready for our first puppy from petfinder.com.  We didn’t quite end up with a puppy, but a 9 year old double dilute sheltie, born deaf &amp; with vision problems who was rescued from a puppy mill where she was forced to pump out litter after litter-and passed those deafness and vision genes on to countless puppies.  She had many medical problems due to neglect and forced breeding (tail injured from pinning it up!)  Stage 4 dental disease, colitis, etc. She had lived in a small cage her whole life.  She was an angel I know we gave her a loving happy home for the last two years of her life.  I don’t regret it for a second. Only that her time with us was too short as is always the case with these incredible souls.

So, I agree, debarking isn’t something that should be done willy-nilly to all dogs just because you don’t want to be bothered by them.  It doesn’t replace training and attention.
I don’t like it when breeders debark all their dogs as standard procedure so they don&#039;t bother them. 
But I don’t believe we mutilated our dog!  I don’t believe we acted inhumanely and irresponsibly. I don’t think what we did was cruel.   
In our case debarking Peanut allowed our family to stay together!
I know some will still have issues with our decision.  But try to put yourself in the situation we were in.  Do you think it would have been best for Peanut if we brought her to the animal shelter?  Do you honestly think another family would spend the time we did and still keep her when she continued to bark her head off?   
I believe we saved Peanut’s life and we will continue to love her for all of her days! 
You can see our Peanut here: http://www.dogster.com/dogs/813812</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have adopted several adult shelties in the past and plan to adopt in the future.<br />
So, 11 years ago I was contacted by someone who knew how much we love animals and told about a very sad situation. They knew a middle age couple that had a sheltie and they were going to put it to sleep.  They knew nothing about shelties before picking one out from a breeder who specialized in working herding shelties &amp; border collies so they bred for the herding drive.  They got a sheltie puppy because they liked the look. This was their first mistake.<br />
They spent no time training this dog beyond house breaking it.<br />
They had built a new house and said the dog was having accidents so the husband would beat it.  The wife was afraid he would kill the dog so they had their adult daughter take it to her home, where she ran a daycare.  When the dog started herding the toddlers, they shuffled the dog to another adult sibling’s house.  For some other reason that didn’t work out either so the dog went back to the daycare house but was put in a kennel in the back yard and kept out there with very little attention. The daughter’s neighbors were complaining about the barking so this is why they were going to put it to sleep. “She was naughty!” is what they said.<br />
At the time, my husband and I lived in the country in a house we had just built with our 12-year-old male sheltie. I could not bear to have this poor dog put down so we took her home.<br />
Poor Peanut was just two years old and scared to death.  She’d had no socializing at all but quickly became part of our family.  She is so very smart and learned all the basics very quickly!  We also discovered the mistakes she’d had at her previous home that she was being beaten for was actually stomach bile.  The food they had been feeding her was too rich and she’d throw up. They’d see a yellow puddle (bile) and take a belt to her for it.  To this day she has never ever had an accident with us but she trembles at the sight of belts!  So have no belts in our house; my hubby even wears suspenders now!<br />
She was so eager to please and very quick to learn. She really perked up our old male sheltie!  She was good for us and we were good for her.  The only thing was, she was a chronic barker.  Knowing shelties as we do we know they are a vocal and active breed.  Peanut was even more so because of the separation anxiety of being left alone in a pen in the yard with no attention during those first formative years.<br />
Living in the county, it wasn’t a problem for us. She had lots of quirks, the second you’d walk outside the door she’d start barking uncontrollably and spin in circles and so on.<br />
We tried lots of things like training her to bark so we could train her not to and other methods but were not able to change this so we loved her anyway.</p>
<p>Then came the day my husband was diagnosed with cancer.  I wont go into the roller coaster ride we were thrust on but we had to sell our home and buy a condo because he was too sick to care for it &amp; the yard and I had to continue to work to support us.<br />
We found a condo that allowed pets so it all worked out wonderfully.<br />
Except for the barking issue.  When we were home, no problem.  But there were doctor appointments, radiation treatments, and we couldn’t be home 24 hours a day.<br />
We rented just about every training video &amp; training book we could get from the library, talked to our vet, talked to trainers, even had her stay with a trainer so she could get professional one-on-one training. That didn’t work either. She still barked the second we were out of the room. We then tried a citronella spray collar and miss smarty-pants outwitted it.  She learned to bark once and wait for the collar to reset then bark once again…We used activity balls, turned the radio to talk radio so she would hear voices, took her for long walks to tire her out prior to our leaving…..  Nothing worked.</p>
<p>We received notice from the condo association telling us we would have to sell and move or get rid of the dog if her barking continued.<br />
We talked to our vet again and she suggested that since we were having Peanut&#8217;s teeth cleaned the next week, she could debark her at the same time.  I was immediately horrified!  I couldn’t! No way!  I also couldn’t bear to get rid of her.<br />
Here we are fighting this horrible cancer, and our then 14-year-old sheltie’s health was starting to fail and now this!<br />
My vet explained to us that it was a very simple surgery.  While she was already out for the dental cleaning, they would go in and trim the vocal fold tissue. They DON’T cut vocal cords. It’s not even as bad as having tonsils out.  She explained there were some risks and she could get scar tissue and need more surgery, she would still be able to make some noise, the amount was up to her will power.  There would be less tissue for the moving air to vibrate against which is how they make their barking sound.  She doesn’t offer this as a solution to just any dog owner.  But she knew all we the work and different training methods we’d tried.<br />
So Peanut had her teeth cleaned and was also debarked.<br />
She had no complications, no scar tissue, she didn’t even seem bothered by it.<br />
A year later we had to help our other senior sheltie to the rainbow bridge and it hurt so bad but we were glad we still had our Peanut.  Two years after that we got an all clear from the cancer doctor and moved into a house on a small lake.<br />
Peanut will be 13 this April.  She is still healthy, still spins in circles when we step outside even though she can see us standing there, and she is still a compulsive barker. She has the job of herding the wild geese off our lawn and is very good at it. We’ve also done some agility training with her and what an incredible dog she is!  She makes a breathy barking sound and we can hear it but it doesn’t bother our neighbors and Peanut doesn’t care.  The other two dogs we have don’t care that Peanut makes an odd noise. And by the way, we have never debarked any other dogs and don’t plan to.<br />
A year after moving to this house on the lake we decided we were ready for our first puppy from petfinder.com.  We didn’t quite end up with a puppy, but a 9 year old double dilute sheltie, born deaf &amp; with vision problems who was rescued from a puppy mill where she was forced to pump out litter after litter-and passed those deafness and vision genes on to countless puppies.  She had many medical problems due to neglect and forced breeding (tail injured from pinning it up!)  Stage 4 dental disease, colitis, etc. She had lived in a small cage her whole life.  She was an angel I know we gave her a loving happy home for the last two years of her life.  I don’t regret it for a second. Only that her time with us was too short as is always the case with these incredible souls.</p>
<p>So, I agree, debarking isn’t something that should be done willy-nilly to all dogs just because you don’t want to be bothered by them.  It doesn’t replace training and attention.<br />
I don’t like it when breeders debark all their dogs as standard procedure so they don&#8217;t bother them.<br />
But I don’t believe we mutilated our dog!  I don’t believe we acted inhumanely and irresponsibly. I don’t think what we did was cruel.<br />
In our case debarking Peanut allowed our family to stay together!<br />
I know some will still have issues with our decision.  But try to put yourself in the situation we were in.  Do you think it would have been best for Peanut if we brought her to the animal shelter?  Do you honestly think another family would spend the time we did and still keep her when she continued to bark her head off?<br />
I believe we saved Peanut’s life and we will continue to love her for all of her days!<br />
You can see our Peanut here: <a href="http://www.dogster.com/dogs/813812" rel="nofollow">http://www.dogster.com/dogs/813812</a></p>
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		<title>By: nina</title>
		<link>http://blogs.dogster.com/vet_blog_information_advice/teen-with-gumption-plans-to-drive-the-final-nail-into-debarkings-coffin/comment-page-1/#comment-4428</link>
		<dc:creator>nina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 18:28:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.dogster.com/vet_blog_information_advice/teen-with-gumption-plans-to-drive-the-final-nail-into-debarkings-coffin/#comment-4428</guid>
		<description>i hope debarking stops! it is cruelty and should be illegal.
animals should not endure cosmetic surgery because people &#039;like the way they look with ears cropped and tails docked!&#039;
the akc should fix their breed definitions to favor non cropped/docked!
what if i decided you would look better with a nose job or liposuction? 
i so prefer the look of the natural dog!
declawing is condemning a cat to an indoor life and if the cat ever somehow mistakenly gets outside will find himself unable to survive or defend himself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i hope debarking stops! it is cruelty and should be illegal.<br />
animals should not endure cosmetic surgery because people &#8216;like the way they look with ears cropped and tails docked!&#8217;<br />
the akc should fix their breed definitions to favor non cropped/docked!<br />
what if i decided you would look better with a nose job or liposuction?<br />
i so prefer the look of the natural dog!<br />
declawing is condemning a cat to an indoor life and if the cat ever somehow mistakenly gets outside will find himself unable to survive or defend himself.</p>
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		<title>By: Jamie</title>
		<link>http://blogs.dogster.com/vet_blog_information_advice/teen-with-gumption-plans-to-drive-the-final-nail-into-debarkings-coffin/comment-page-1/#comment-4399</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 02:15:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.dogster.com/vet_blog_information_advice/teen-with-gumption-plans-to-drive-the-final-nail-into-debarkings-coffin/#comment-4399</guid>
		<description>Thank you for your response, BiBi.  Clearly I have stumbled into a highly emotional topic!  I&#039;ve done some reading and now see that the issue has polarized people, with those on either side believing that those on the other are either ignorant or immoral.  And this is likely due in part to a lack of availability of facts, such as the risk (actual percentages) of the various complications of the procedure.  Most unfortunate.  It&#039;s hard to make an informed decision when the information is not available. 

I did not ask if merely &quot;noisy&quot; dogs would be euthanized under the proposed legislation.  I asked specifically if those dogs who failed environmental enrichment, training, etc. (i.e., those dogs for whom a cause for the excessive barking could not be identified and/or corrected) could be debarked under the &quot;medical necessity&quot; category. I gather, now, that they could not be.

It seems to me, then, that outlawing surgical devocalization could be problematic where convenience euthanasia IS still legal.  Owners may well choose euthanasia if debarking is not an option.  While some vets refuse to euthanize an animal for frivolous reasons, a vet who will do the deed is usually only a few phone calls away.  This I have learned from several acquaintances who have had their pets euthanized for minor behavior problems with little or no investigation of the underlying cause.

I understand that some dogs that undergo the surgery may eventually be euthanized anyway, but clearly not ALL of them.  Thus, it seems likely that debarking does save SOME lives.  Most dogs would probably choose debarking over death.

I did a little reading to find out what is done in other parts of the world, and learned that some or all of the Australian provinces, for example, have outlawed debarking, but at least one of them has made provision for debarking of what I will call persistent barkers (with the hope that you will understand what I mean by that, and that I am not referring to dogs that are merely &quot;noisy&quot;).  The provision requires an evaluation by a third party to determine if all other options have been thoroughly explored.  In such a system, routine debarking by breeders or by anyone else is not a allowed, but in the rare case of a persistent barker for whom all other options have been exhausted, it is allowed.  This is something I could support.

BiBi, you mention that some shelters tell us that rehoming is preferable to devocalizing a dog.  Clearly this must be true in some cases.  However, it is probably not true in ALL cases.  If one thinks that a dog is sensitive enough to experience psychological trauma as a result of surgical debarking, it is likely that he is also sensitive enough to be traumatized by the loss of his human family, however imperfect.  This is certainly true for human children, and removal of a child from a home is never something to be taken lightly....but we need not digress in that direction.

And, unfortunately, rehoming an animal can be difficult if not impossible.  I did a little research on this, as well, and found that fully 56% of dogs and 71% of cats that enter shelters in the US are euthanized, due to insufficient space or insufficient funding to deal with illness and injury.  Only about a quarter of dogs and cats that enter shelters are ever adopted:
http://www.americanhumane.org/about-us/newsroom/fact-sheets/animal-shelter-euthanasia.html
So, does a persistent barker really have a better chance if brought to a shelter than if surgically devocalized?  Probably not.

I agree entirely that responsible pet ownership is to be encouraged, and convenience surgeries discouraged.  Further, I agree that ROUTINE debarking by breeders or by anyone else is unacceptable and should be illegal.  But a law that makes no exception for a persistent barker is too black and white.

In a perfect world, everyone would spay/neuter their pets and care for them responsibly.  There would be no need for shelters and convenience euthanasia would be unacceptable.  But we live in an imperfect world, where convenience euthanasia is legal and rather commonly performed.  Thus, it is difficult for me to support the proposed debarking law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your response, BiBi.  Clearly I have stumbled into a highly emotional topic!  I&#8217;ve done some reading and now see that the issue has polarized people, with those on either side believing that those on the other are either ignorant or immoral.  And this is likely due in part to a lack of availability of facts, such as the risk (actual percentages) of the various complications of the procedure.  Most unfortunate.  It&#8217;s hard to make an informed decision when the information is not available. </p>
<p>I did not ask if merely &#8220;noisy&#8221; dogs would be euthanized under the proposed legislation.  I asked specifically if those dogs who failed environmental enrichment, training, etc. (i.e., those dogs for whom a cause for the excessive barking could not be identified and/or corrected) could be debarked under the &#8220;medical necessity&#8221; category. I gather, now, that they could not be.</p>
<p>It seems to me, then, that outlawing surgical devocalization could be problematic where convenience euthanasia IS still legal.  Owners may well choose euthanasia if debarking is not an option.  While some vets refuse to euthanize an animal for frivolous reasons, a vet who will do the deed is usually only a few phone calls away.  This I have learned from several acquaintances who have had their pets euthanized for minor behavior problems with little or no investigation of the underlying cause.</p>
<p>I understand that some dogs that undergo the surgery may eventually be euthanized anyway, but clearly not ALL of them.  Thus, it seems likely that debarking does save SOME lives.  Most dogs would probably choose debarking over death.</p>
<p>I did a little reading to find out what is done in other parts of the world, and learned that some or all of the Australian provinces, for example, have outlawed debarking, but at least one of them has made provision for debarking of what I will call persistent barkers (with the hope that you will understand what I mean by that, and that I am not referring to dogs that are merely &#8220;noisy&#8221;).  The provision requires an evaluation by a third party to determine if all other options have been thoroughly explored.  In such a system, routine debarking by breeders or by anyone else is not a allowed, but in the rare case of a persistent barker for whom all other options have been exhausted, it is allowed.  This is something I could support.</p>
<p>BiBi, you mention that some shelters tell us that rehoming is preferable to devocalizing a dog.  Clearly this must be true in some cases.  However, it is probably not true in ALL cases.  If one thinks that a dog is sensitive enough to experience psychological trauma as a result of surgical debarking, it is likely that he is also sensitive enough to be traumatized by the loss of his human family, however imperfect.  This is certainly true for human children, and removal of a child from a home is never something to be taken lightly&#8230;.but we need not digress in that direction.</p>
<p>And, unfortunately, rehoming an animal can be difficult if not impossible.  I did a little research on this, as well, and found that fully 56% of dogs and 71% of cats that enter shelters in the US are euthanized, due to insufficient space or insufficient funding to deal with illness and injury.  Only about a quarter of dogs and cats that enter shelters are ever adopted:<br />
<a href="http://www.americanhumane.org/about-us/newsroom/fact-sheets/animal-shelter-euthanasia.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.americanhumane.org/about-us/newsroom/fact-sheets/animal-shelter-euthanasia.html</a><br />
So, does a persistent barker really have a better chance if brought to a shelter than if surgically devocalized?  Probably not.</p>
<p>I agree entirely that responsible pet ownership is to be encouraged, and convenience surgeries discouraged.  Further, I agree that ROUTINE debarking by breeders or by anyone else is unacceptable and should be illegal.  But a law that makes no exception for a persistent barker is too black and white.</p>
<p>In a perfect world, everyone would spay/neuter their pets and care for them responsibly.  There would be no need for shelters and convenience euthanasia would be unacceptable.  But we live in an imperfect world, where convenience euthanasia is legal and rather commonly performed.  Thus, it is difficult for me to support the proposed debarking law.</p>
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		<title>By: BiBi</title>
		<link>http://blogs.dogster.com/vet_blog_information_advice/teen-with-gumption-plans-to-drive-the-final-nail-into-debarkings-coffin/comment-page-1/#comment-4378</link>
		<dc:creator>BiBi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 18:34:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.dogster.com/vet_blog_information_advice/teen-with-gumption-plans-to-drive-the-final-nail-into-debarkings-coffin/#comment-4378</guid>
		<description>Jamie, I&#039;m sorry I forgot to respond to your question about whether noisy dogs would be euthanized. Shelters are working to pass the Mass. bill banning convenience devocalization--allowing the procedure only to treat illness, injury or congenital abnormality that would put the animal at risk or in pain. 

Why? Because devocalization does NOT ensure any animal a secure home. Dogs and cats are surrendered for many reasons unrelated to barking or meowing just as many declawed cats are surrendered or convenience euthanized.

And if owners are unable or unwilling to pay the price of procedures to treat tissue regrowth or other complications, where do you think the animal will end up? 

Reputable shelters tell us they prefer the animal be rehomed rather than devocalized.

The purpose of the bill, along with stopping an unethical, cruel procedure, is to foster RESPONSIBLE pet ownership. Live in close proximity to neighbors? Don&#039;t bring home a dog predisposed to hypervocalization. To do that and then mutilate him is the height of immorality.

Don&#039;t have time to spend with a dog? Don&#039;t get one. Leaving him alone all day or outside for hours on end invites excessive barking and complaints from neighbors. DUH!!

Couch potato? Better do some breed research and get a dog who&#039;s equally inactive, because a dog that needs exercise and doesn&#039;t get it is going to...guess what? Bark excessively!

Dogs also bark excessively when they&#039;re in pain, frustrated, afraid.

Cutting their vocal cords doesn&#039;t change any of that. The animal remains in distress, which he then may express in other ways, say, by biting. And then what? A shelter or the gas chamber.

It is far more humane and reasonable to choose the right pet for your living environment and lifestyle, care for her appropriately, and work with a behavior specialist to diagnose and treat the underlying cause of excessive vocalization. THAT is what the bill encourages.

Think how you would feel with chronic laryngitis or emphysema. Think how hard it is to communicate. Why would you do that to the pet you pledged to love and protect?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jamie, I&#8217;m sorry I forgot to respond to your question about whether noisy dogs would be euthanized. Shelters are working to pass the Mass. bill banning convenience devocalization&#8211;allowing the procedure only to treat illness, injury or congenital abnormality that would put the animal at risk or in pain. </p>
<p>Why? Because devocalization does NOT ensure any animal a secure home. Dogs and cats are surrendered for many reasons unrelated to barking or meowing just as many declawed cats are surrendered or convenience euthanized.</p>
<p>And if owners are unable or unwilling to pay the price of procedures to treat tissue regrowth or other complications, where do you think the animal will end up? </p>
<p>Reputable shelters tell us they prefer the animal be rehomed rather than devocalized.</p>
<p>The purpose of the bill, along with stopping an unethical, cruel procedure, is to foster RESPONSIBLE pet ownership. Live in close proximity to neighbors? Don&#8217;t bring home a dog predisposed to hypervocalization. To do that and then mutilate him is the height of immorality.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t have time to spend with a dog? Don&#8217;t get one. Leaving him alone all day or outside for hours on end invites excessive barking and complaints from neighbors. DUH!!</p>
<p>Couch potato? Better do some breed research and get a dog who&#8217;s equally inactive, because a dog that needs exercise and doesn&#8217;t get it is going to&#8230;guess what? Bark excessively!</p>
<p>Dogs also bark excessively when they&#8217;re in pain, frustrated, afraid.</p>
<p>Cutting their vocal cords doesn&#8217;t change any of that. The animal remains in distress, which he then may express in other ways, say, by biting. And then what? A shelter or the gas chamber.</p>
<p>It is far more humane and reasonable to choose the right pet for your living environment and lifestyle, care for her appropriately, and work with a behavior specialist to diagnose and treat the underlying cause of excessive vocalization. THAT is what the bill encourages.</p>
<p>Think how you would feel with chronic laryngitis or emphysema. Think how hard it is to communicate. Why would you do that to the pet you pledged to love and protect?</p>
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